drinkwine732Posts: 20,418destroyer of motherfuckers
also there needs to be a little more control on who even has babies. there are way too many young people these days having babies when they can in no way financially or emotionally support a child. there are people at my work who are like that and it sickens me. no child should be raised in that fucked up situation.
I think more people would be able to raise children better if we had universal education. The better educated people in society gets, the more beneficial it is for everyone.
I agree. birth control and condoms need to be more widely talked about to young adults too.
It's getting that way in public schools.
wine i am not very familiar with PLAN B i have to say but based on what you said i would ABSOLUTELY be for it, some people want to go through life without children and i can understand that, live your life the way you want to live..deep down i truly want to give people the most options they can in life, i dont want to oppress anybody, but sometimes your decisions effect other people...what if the potential father really wanted a child, that could literaly break his heart.. you and and bottle tree have never been a parent so it would be hard for you to understand as it would for I but based on what i see its an extremely intense feeling for some..some people would die in place of there children and a father should have no say?? personally i am WITH you guys, i am pro abortion, thought its a difficult choice for me and i would rather just stay neutral on the topic...but i truly believe it should be both parents decisions based on what i just said and i think there should be a one week waiting period so people can fully think and understand what they are doing...im still a little baffled on how people can thing this is a power thing, u really feel that most people in this world is that cynical? maybe they are but i still believe a little more out of people and think they have the right to think what is morally wrong and right based on there own belief systems..
so wine your stating that ron paul cat be an effective president because his stance on abortion which has nothing to do with running a country is all about him just trying to take rights away from people ( which he addamently stands against) and not that he could just think its difficult saddened decision that he feels against personally?
I understand your stances on abortion, I just go one step further. These what if statements apply to very, very few people, because the reaction of an abortion patient when they find out they are pregnant is much more similar to an "oh shit." moment.
As for the "one week waiting period," I'm not sure what the case is in other states, but a very good friend of mine has had an abortion. She told me that it was a long process, because she had to go through all of this counseling, etc at planned parenthood. She said she had known for about 6 days, but she never told me how far along she was.
See, your last paragraph is so frustrating. Are you saying, Nola, that all women should be put into camps and forced to have children that they don't want to have because you oppose abortion? No, because you neither oppose abortion or came anywhere near saying that. I never said anything to make you believe that I think that Ron Paul is incapable of being a good president at all. I just said that I will not vote for a president who is anti Roe v Wade. As a social liberal, I believe that the biggest problems that face our society are social ones, and I would like to see those fixed. Priorities. He very well could be the guy to get us out of the American economic crisis, but I put more value on people's individual liberties to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, which entitles them to live the way they want to live. The rest of the country, does not share that sentiment.
I don't care what he personally feels for abortion, because it really doesn't matter at all. He could be the most sympathetic dude since Keanu Reeves, but since he opposes something I strongly stand for and believe is right, I cannot vote for him. It doesn't matter why.
yup a man could only want a child to keep women down in society, it couldnt possibly be that they want to experience a connection with another human being that they brought into the world that would be crazy talk...
I'm not saying that, I'm saying he should know he has no control over my body no matter how upset he is. He's not the one who is pregnant, and if your partner isn't ready to have a child, then you should realize it's probably not the best idea to have one anyway. I feel the same way if the man doesn't want children, but his partner wants kids, so she pokes holes in the condoms or doesn't take her birth control to get herself pregnant. It's ridiculous both ways, and you should both be ready for one if you have a huge responsibility like that.
bottle tree let me just ask you a simple question then ,d oes it at least sadden you that there a certain times where a person could have not had an abortion and a person culd have lived a happy healthy life and now it doesnt get to do that at all becuase it would be stressful in someone life tho go through with a nine month pregnancy?
I don't know the fate of any human being. But hypothetically, no it doesn't bother me at all. I like to focus on the people who are already alive, and it saddens me we don't take care of the ones who are already here more.
well that makes me sad that you think that way..i agree people who are already here should learn to all treat each other better but there will always be bad in the world, i just figure there is also a lot of good in this world too and too not let something experince that good could it would nconvenience someone for nine months is kind of selfish, life on this world is so variabled(not sure if even a word but you get what i mean) that you could never gaurantee a happy life for an unborn child, who knows he could grow up homeless and alone his whole life but i how can someone not help but think what life would be like without just one person you love, what life would be like say if arlo was aborted (sorry arlo) and you now had no brother, your life could be significantly different..its a deeply weighted and complicated issue and your looking at it so coldly and frankly that it disturbs me a little bit
well that makes me sad that you think that way..i agree people who are already here should learn to all treat each other better but there will always be bad in the world, i just figure there is also a lot of good in this world too and too not let something experince that good could it would nconvenience someone for nine months is kind of selfish, life on this world is so variabled(not sure if even a word but you get what i mean) that you could never gaurantee a happy life for an unborn child, who knows he could grow up homeless and alone his whole life but i how can someone not help but think what life would be like without just one person you love, what life would be like say if arlo was aborted (sorry arlo) and you now had no brother, your life could be significantly different..its a deeply weighted and complicated issue and your looking at it so coldly and frankly that it disturbs me a little bit
If I didn't have Arlo to begin with, I wouldn't miss him. If he died now, of course I would miss him because he is already here. You shouldn't miss something that wasn't even here in the first place.
I'm not being cold at all. If anything I think I'm looking at it positively. I don't want to waste my time worrying about fetuses who aren't people, and give money to organizations who worry about fetuses either. I want to give money to help people who are already here, and hope they can be successful, and adopt children who are already here because there are too many of them whose parents just said "Oh, I should give this child life because it's the right thing to do! Here, now you're society's problem!". Even if there was just one child who needed to be adopted, that is a huge problem.
A baby would be a huge inconvienence to me right now if my birth control failed. I'm not selfish for not wanting it though. If I don't want a baby, I don't want a baby and shouldn't have one if I don't want it. And no, I'm not just going to give it up for adoption. I think I would seriously consider suicide if I ever did something as horrible as abandoning something I shouldn't of had in the first place, and that I could of prevented.
Again, people's birth controls and condoms can fail. Some women can even get pregnant after they had their tubes tied. It's not your fault, and you shouldn't think of a zygote as a human being. You lived your life perfectly before you had a baby, and you shouldn't miss it or feel bad if you continue to not have one. Simple as that.
i know she wouldnt be saddened if he didnt exist because obv she wouldnt know about it, but in hindsight knowing now that he exists i think she would choose a life with a brother over choosing a life without one
ill agree its logical but it is also cold no doubt about it, i fail to see alot of human compassion in it
I have plenty of compassion for human beings, and that's why I've mentioned many times that's why I want to adopt children so bad. I like to participate in food drives and the Toys for Tots things during the holidays. I love people. But I don't see a zygote or a fetus as a human being. I want to help people who are already here because there are way too many in need.
A baby would be a huge inconvienence to me right now if my birth control failed. I'm not selfish for not wanting it though. If I don't want a baby, I don't want a baby and shouldn't have one if I don't want it. And no, I'm not just going to give it up for adoption. I think I would seriously consider suicide if I ever did something as horrible as abandoning something I shouldn't of had in the first place, and that I could of prevented.
oh you poor thing, an inconvenience?? seriosuly? dont you think all kids would be an inconvenience on anyone wither or not they were an accident or intended..heaven forbid someone has to make a little sacrifice in there life for someone else to even exist..how is this not a selfish??
Of course I would choose to have Arlo with the knowledge of how awesome it is, lol. But you can't miss something that isn't there, bottom line. I wouldn't give a shit if my parents aborted him if I never knew him. Hell, I wouldn't of blamed my parents if they had aborted me because we were both accidents, lol! Of course, I wouldn't be able to blame them anyway because I wouldn't exist.
ill agree its logical but it is also cold no doubt about it, i fail to see alot of human compassion in it
I have plenty of compassion for human beings, and that's why I've mentioned many times that's why I want to adopt children so bad. I like to participate in food drives and the Toys for Tots things during the holidays. I love people. But I don't see a zygote or a fetus as a human being. I want to help people who are already here because there are way too many in need.
look im not saying your a cold, emotionless person, this post shows that you care and i think thats great, i was speaking more just on this specific issue it seems rather cold to me, logical, but cold. havent you seen the movie Its a WOnderful Life?? dont laugh seriously think about it, one persons life could greatly influence other people on this earth whether there journey is more dificult because they were not exactly planned
oh you poor thing, an inconvenience?? seriosuly? dont you think all kids would be an inconvenience on anyone wither or not they were an accident or intended..heaven forbid someone has to make a little sacrifice in there life for someone else to even exist..how is this not a selfish??
Because I don't want to burden my parents especially with a disgusting, crying brat that I probably wouldn't even love in the first place. I absolutely despise babies, tbh. I want to finish school, get the career I want to, and live my life until I'm ready to adopt some children who need love and a family. I want to wait until I'm at least 40 to have kids, and I don't think it's right to have my own when I can find perfectly good ones whose parents abandoned them.
I'm on birth control for a reason. I don't want children, and if I could I would have my uterus taken out so I be 100% sure I don't have them. But I can't do that at this age. An abortion isn't selfish. I'm looking out for myself and my family, and I couldn't live with myself for bringing yet another life into this world.
And it's not really a "little" sacrifice. I would have to sacrifice everything, and make my parents have to sacrifice so much of their lives to raise a kid.
Of course I would choose to have Arlo with the knowledge of how awesome it is, lol. But you can't miss something that isn't there, bottom line. I wouldn't give a shit if my parents aborted him if I never knew him. Hell, I wouldn't of blamed my parents if they had aborted me because we were both accidents, lol! Of course, I wouldn't be able to blame them anyway because I wouldn't exist.
not exactly what i was going for look at it this way: you have two cases:
one life you have a brother like you do now
the other one you have no brother but also no knowledge of him ever existing
you would still want the first one because you love your brother and your saying that you would be ok if your parents decided for him to know even be there cuz it would inconvenience them a little whether it be financially or peice of mind?? thats seeems wayyyyyy harsh to me sorry.
ill agree its logical but it is also cold no doubt about it, i fail to see alot of human compassion in it
I have plenty of compassion for human beings, and that's why I've mentioned many times that's why I want to adopt children so bad. I like to participate in food drives and the Toys for Tots things during the holidays. I love people. But I don't see a zygote or a fetus as a human being. I want to help people who are already here because there are way too many in need.
look im not saying your a cold, emotionless person, this post shows that you care and i think thats great, i was speaking more just on this specific issue it seems rather cold to me, logical, but cold. havent you seen the movie Its a WOnderful Life?? dont laugh seriously think about it, one persons life could greatly influence other people on this earth whether there journey is more dificult because they were not exactly planned
And it could be for the better or worse, but in reality I seriously doubt one potential person who wasn't planned to be here in the first place would change the world too much, no matter what they turned out to be.
oh you poor thing, an inconvenience?? seriosuly? dont you think all kids would be an inconvenience on anyone wither or not they were an accident or intended..heaven forbid someone has to make a little sacrifice in there life for someone else to even exist..how is this not a selfish??
Because I don't want to burden my parents especially with a disgusting, crying brat that I probably wouldn't even love in the first place. I absolutely despise babies, tbh. I want to finish school, get the career I want to, and live my life until I'm ready to adopt some children who need love and a family. I want to wait until I'm at least 40 to have kids, and I don't think it's right to have my own when I can find perfectly good ones whose parents abandoned them.
I'm on birth control for a reason. I don't want children, and if I could I would have my uterus taken out so I be 100% sure I don't have them. But I can't do that at this age. An abortion isn't selfish. I'm looking out for myself and my family, and I couldn't live with myself for bringing yet another life into this world.
And it's not really a "little" sacrifice. I would have to sacrifice everything, and make my parents have to sacrifice so much of their lives to raise a kid.
all of this stuff is what you want
what i want is this, what i want is that...somethings in life are unexpected and you have to be brave and strong and get through them if my mom died tomm it would greatly affect my life but i would still have to be strong and do the right thing..i feel the same way about this.. if i got a girl pregnant tomm i would be like FUUUUUUCCCCCKKKK..i have no desire to be a parent right now but guess what i would man up and take responsiblity and raise it to the best of my possible ablitity. all my other plans would go on hold, i truly feel that should be the way people think..people have become so self absorbed these days it makes me sick
Of course I would choose to have Arlo with the knowledge of how awesome it is, lol. But you can't miss something that isn't there, bottom line. I wouldn't give a shit if my parents aborted him if I never knew him. Hell, I wouldn't of blamed my parents if they had aborted me because we were both accidents, lol! Of course, I wouldn't be able to blame them anyway because I wouldn't exist.
not exactly what i was going for look at it this way: you have two cases:
one life you have a brother like you do now
the other one you have no brother but also no knowledge of him ever existing
you would still want the first one because you love your brother and your saying that you would be ok if your parents decided for him to know even be there cuz it would inconvenience them a little whether it be financially or peice of mind?? thats seeems wayyyyyy harsh to me sorry.
That is not a logical argument. I would have to choose between them with the knowledge I have now of having a brother. Arlo wouldn't of had to be aborted, as he was an accident just like me. My mother forgot to take her birth control. If she had remembered to before he was concieved, she wouldn't of had Arlo, lol. Life didn't work out that way, but if it did, oh well. That's just life.
what i want is this, what i want is that...somethings in life are unexpected and you have to be brave and strong and get through them if my mom died tomm it would greatly affect my life but i would still have to be strong and do the right thing..i feel the same way about this.. if i got a girl pregnant tomm i would be like FUUUUUUCCCCCKKKK..i have no desire to be a parent right now but guess what i would man up and take responsiblity and raise it to the best of my possible ablitity. all my other plans would go on hold, i truly feel that should be the way people think..people have become so self absorbed these days it makes me sick
How is it so self absorbed to want to live your own life? I want to have a fabulous life so I can be a great, financially independent parent for children who have none. My parents don't want me to have kids either (which they constantly remind me of), because they don't want to have take care of them, and they want me to have a successful career and life and have kids when I'm ready like they did. I'm in no position to have one. Sure, I could live off tax payer's money, and work at McDonalds for the rest of my days, but what kind of life is that? Not a good one if I want to make a successful member of society who will actually make meaningful contributions.
and if people want to get logical all the time then the world wouldnt even makes sense, logically then you shouldnt love your family more than anyone else in the world, logically love wouldnt really exist, logically a person dying isnt that big of a deal.....i dont feel i could live this way do you?
It's logical to love your family because you made it, and you should take responsibility to help it be successful in soceity so it can benefit you and everyone else, lol.
if you want to be 100 percent logical, then life is meaningless and we would all then be better of not being born since we are all just a burden on the people who bring us in this world
It's logical to love your family because you made it, and you should take responsibility to help it be successful in soceity so it can benefit you and everyone else, lol.
benefit you you how?? by showing you the power of human connections and love or benefitting you financially and your condition of life
Comments
As for the "one week waiting period," I'm not sure what the case is in other states, but a very good friend of mine has had an abortion. She told me that it was a long process, because she had to go through all of this counseling, etc at planned parenthood. She said she had known for about 6 days, but she never told me how far along she was.
See, your last paragraph is so frustrating. Are you saying, Nola, that all women should be put into camps and forced to have children that they don't want to have because you oppose abortion? No, because you neither oppose abortion or came anywhere near saying that. I never said anything to make you believe that I think that Ron Paul is incapable of being a good president at all. I just said that I will not vote for a president who is anti Roe v Wade. As a social liberal, I believe that the biggest problems that face our society are social ones, and I would like to see those fixed. Priorities. He very well could be the guy to get us out of the American economic crisis, but I put more value on people's individual liberties to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, which entitles them to live the way they want to live. The rest of the country, does not share that sentiment.
I don't care what he personally feels for abortion, because it really doesn't matter at all. He could be the most sympathetic dude since Keanu Reeves, but since he opposes something I strongly stand for and believe is right, I cannot vote for him. It doesn't matter why.
And again, a fetus is not a human.
I'm not being cold at all. If anything I think I'm looking at it positively. I don't want to waste my time worrying about fetuses who aren't people, and give money to organizations who worry about fetuses either. I want to give money to help people who are already here, and hope they can be successful, and adopt children who are already here because there are too many of them whose parents just said "Oh, I should give this child life because it's the right thing to do! Here, now you're society's problem!". Even if there was just one child who needed to be adopted, that is a huge problem.
A baby would be a huge inconvienence to me right now if my birth control failed. I'm not selfish for not wanting it though. If I don't want a baby, I don't want a baby and shouldn't have one if I don't want it. And no, I'm not just going to give it up for adoption. I think I would seriously consider suicide if I ever did something as horrible as abandoning something I shouldn't of had in the first place, and that I could of prevented.
Again, people's birth controls and condoms can fail. Some women can even get pregnant after they had their tubes tied. It's not your fault, and you shouldn't think of a zygote as a human being. You lived your life perfectly before you had a baby, and you shouldn't miss it or feel bad if you continue to not have one. Simple as that.
A baby would be a huge inconvienence to me right now if my birth control failed. I'm not selfish for not wanting it though. If I don't want a baby, I don't want a baby and shouldn't have one if I don't want it. And no, I'm not just going to give it up for adoption. I think I would seriously consider suicide if I ever did something as horrible as abandoning something I shouldn't of had in the first place, and that I could of prevented.
oh you poor thing, an inconvenience?? seriosuly? dont you think all kids would be an inconvenience on anyone wither or not they were an accident or intended..heaven forbid someone has to make a little sacrifice in there life for someone else to even exist..how is this not a selfish??
I'm on birth control for a reason. I don't want children, and if I could I would have my uterus taken out so I be 100% sure I don't have them. But I can't do that at this age. An abortion isn't selfish. I'm looking out for myself and my family, and I couldn't live with myself for bringing yet another life into this world.
And it's not really a "little" sacrifice. I would have to sacrifice everything, and make my parents have to sacrifice so much of their lives to raise a kid.
one life you have a brother like you do now
the other one you have no brother but also no knowledge of him ever existing
you would still want the first one because you love your brother and your saying that you would be ok if your parents decided for him to know even be there cuz it would inconvenience them a little whether it be financially or peice of mind?? thats seeems wayyyyyy harsh to me sorry.
all of this stuff is what you want
what i want is this, what i want is that...somethings in life are unexpected and you have to be brave and strong and get through them if my mom died tomm it would greatly affect my life but i would still have to be strong and do the right thing..i feel the same way about this.. if i got a girl pregnant tomm i would be like FUUUUUUCCCCCKKKK..i have no desire to be a parent right now but guess what i would man up and take responsiblity and raise it to the best of my possible ablitity. all my other plans would go on hold, i truly feel that should be the way people think..people have become so self absorbed these days it makes me sick