Abortion is a very complicated issue people, essentially this will be a person that could have lived an entire life and accomplished so much if given the chance to live, i understand and also believe in personal freedoms and letting people do what they want in life with not a lot of govt policing but what if you have a brother or sister and think of your life without that person, its a sad thought..now im not saying abortion is wrong but to not vote for a person for president of the united states because he feels sympathy for a life that wont be lived due to personal more feelings i think is rather unfair
As a woman, I find it to be a huge deal if a candidate is anti-abortion. The government shouldn't choose what I do with my own body. Not allowing that choice is controlling women, and many would kill themselves in the process of trying to get rid of it if it were outlawed. Most people who are against abortion anyways are men.
I don't think a zygote or a fetus that can't live outside the mother is a human being. Hell, it can't feel pain anyway when abortions are performed. If I thought that way, then I would have to mourn all the periods I had because all of my eggs are potential lives.
bottle tree, if you dont have an abotion that will grow to a person...if you have a period it will not grow into a person, extermely differnet and horrible exmple..I agree with you on your first paragraph though, i am very friendly to the idea of abortions for rape victims or and sexual abuse cases like that that sraight up and i do feel that women should have the right to make there own decisions but can you really hate a guy who thinks its morally wrong for someone to stop a human life from taking place? cant you at least admit that its a cmplicated and difficult topic and you shouldnt really hold that against somebody...well i do at least, im pro abortion but i am at least sympathetic to the pro life thought process...i do however find it absolutely retarded to make your choice of president based on this completely irrelevant issue, once again what does this have anything to do with running a country <_>
But it's not an irrelevant issue. It's ridiculous to have that mindset. And again, who cares if you could have a baby? And why is it only rape victims who get abortions? Condoms and birth control don't work 100% of the time even when used properly. Nobody should ever have to be made to have a baby they don't want or can't afford. And if it were just limited to rape victims to get one, there would be a lot of cases of women seriously injuring themselves or killing themselves in trying to get rid of something they don't want.
And people need to stop thinking its a human life. It's a clump of cells, not a person. The reason I use mourning a period as an example is because it's equally ridiculous. Eggs have the potential to become a life just like a zygote does. Does it make them people? No, it doesn't.
I don't understand what's so complicated about it. People need to realize that a clump of cells isn't a person, and it's not a big deal if you stop the process.
The reason it's such a huge deal to me is as I said earlier, it's just a way to control women. Even if the guy is genuine in how he thinks, it allows people who want to control women more power. It is a potential catalyst for so many more problems, and more ways for men to control me.
Hell, one example I can think of that is an example of controlling women is when I can get my tubes tied or my uterus taken out. I have to be 29 to have this done because "what if you want to change it later"? I don't see why that can't be the case for plastic surgery or tanning, because those are major things being done to your body you might regret later. So the government wants me to be pretty and have babies. Because they think that's all I'm good for.
you realize that a grown ass human being is just a clump of cells right???
if you leave the process alone its oging tobe a person, a person who will grow up make friends have a family, possiblely find the love of his/her life have more happy children that get to experince the joys of life etc.. once again this is a DIFFICULT ISSUE, one with probably not a right or wrong answer, people just try and deal with it the best they can...for instance what if you were a slodier and had to kill an innocent child to protect your troop?? killing that child would be a very difficult thing to do even if it was for the betterment of every one else..you could understand why someone would be hesistant in doing that...i think abortion is similar to that...if you absolutely have no means or are incompabable of raising a child then it would probably be the responsible thing to get an abortion, but i believe i have the right to call someone selfish who gets an abortion just because it would be a hassle in there life at the time, what gives some poeple the right to live and some others dont?
your example to the period is just ludacris and silly, egss have no potential of making a child, 0 unless it is fertilized..the example is completely irrelevant
Hell, one example I can think of that is an example of controlling women is when I can get my tubes tied or my uterus taken out. I have to be 29 to have this done because "what if you want to change it later"? I don't see why that can't be the case for plastic surgery or tanning, because those are major things being done to your body you might regret later. So the government wants me to be pretty and have babies. Because they think that's all I'm good for.
well im 100 percent in agreement with you there no question
drinkwine732Posts: 20,418destroyer of motherfuckers
i honestly believe we are heading down the same exact path that caused the collapse of the soviet union
I believe the British Empire is a more appropriate collapse, but sure, it's not pretty.
Abortion is a very complicated issue people, essentially this will be a person that could have lived an entire life and accomplished so much if given the chance to live, i understand and also believe in personal freedoms and letting people do what they want in life with not a lot of govt policing but what if you have a brother or sister and think of your life without that person, its a sad thought..now im not saying abortion is wrong but to not vote for a person for president of the united states because he feels sympathy for a life that wont be lived due to personal more feelings i think is rather unfair
Until the oppression against certain parts of the population, ie women and gays, is resolved, there is no hope to stride forward as a society. I believe laws against a woman deciding what to do with her future, her fetus and her life are her decision and hers alone. I would strongly counsel women against getting an abortion because of the inconvenience of having a child, but in the end, it's not my call. Generally speaking though, women do not get abortions because it's inconvenient for them to have a child, they get them because having a child would result in the child's negligence or malnourishment, physically or emotionally.
By your logic, Nola, Plan B should be illegal, because it is a form of contraception that kills the potential for a child to grow. The difference in our thinking is that you see the maximum potential of the fetus, where I see what I believe is the most likely course for that child's life, and none of that is positive. Sure, great people grow from the slums and go on to do great things, but to say that is an argument for making abortion illegal is tough.
I won't vote for an anti Roe v Wade president because I believe that it has nothing to do with sympathy, nothing to do with life, but it's all about the rights of the individual.
Wait, Ron Paul is against abortion? I thought he was for everyone making their own decisions.
He is a Roe v Wade opponent, which is all I need. I feel like the recent pressure with funding planned parenthood, etc combined with an anti Roe v Wade president is all the right needs to make a push for overturning the decision.
Yes, I do, but a much more complex group of cells, and different kinds to make up organs, their brain, etc. to be able to think and feel and do all of the things you listed.
Abortion is in no way, shape, or form to killing someone who is already there. That person has already experienced life and is a complex being. You don't realize you even exist until you're two years old. A fetus or a zygote can't do any of those things. It's not a soul, it's not going to go to heaven and look down and say "MOMMY WHY DID YOU KILL ME?" despite what some pro-lifers believe.
Why is it so selfish to have an abortion because you don't want a child? It would be better to abort it than have to either a) give it up for adoption and have the stress for the rest of your life that you abandoned your child, and stuck it with the thousands of other children who need to be adopted, or b) keep it and not be able to live your own life. And sometimes people who weren't ready for a child but were pressured into having it anyway don't end up really loving their children. One of the nurses at my gyno told me that's what happened to her sister.
And an egg has plenty of potential to be a life, it's just one half of the zygote. But neither are people. That is the point I'm trying to make.
The things you listed that a potential life could experience could happen, or it could be the opposite. But those examples of "what could of been" are exactly the things people tell women to make them feel bad so they won't get one. In Texas they're now making women get a fucking sonogram of their fetus before they can get an abortion to make them feel guilty and feel bad. You should NEVER make someone feel bad for a decision, no matter what their case is, that shouldn't even be a big deal in the first place. And again, it's mostly men (I've seen a statistic that it was like, 80% of people who are anti-abortion are men) who make these stupid laws in order to control women. It's wrong, and they need to stop their Medieval way of thinking.
wine i am not very familiar with PLAN B i have to say but based on what you said i would ABSOLUTELY be for it, some people want to go through life without children and i can understand that, live your life the way you want to live..deep down i truly want to give people the most options they can in life, i dont want to oppress anybody, but sometimes your decisions effect other people...what if the potential father really wanted a child, that could literaly break his heart.. you and and bottle tree have never been a parent so it would be hard for you to understand as it would for I but based on what i see its an extremely intense feeling for some..some people would die in place of there children and a father should have no say?? personally i am WITH you guys, i am pro abortion, thought its a difficult choice for me and i would rather just stay neutral on the topic...but i truly believe it should be both parents decisions based on what i just said and i think there should be a one week waiting period so people can fully think and understand what they are doing...im still a little baffled on how people can thing this is a power thing, u really feel that most people in this world is that cynical? maybe they are but i still believe a little more out of people and think they have the right to think what is morally wrong and right based on there own belief systems..
so wine your stating that ron paul cat be an effective president because his stance on abortion which has nothing to do with running a country is all about him just trying to take rights away from people ( which he addamently stands against) and not that he could just think its difficult saddened decision that he feels against personally?
also there needs to be a little more control on who even has babies. there are way too many young people these days having babies when they can in no way financially or emotionally support a child.
there are people at my work who are like that and it sickens me. no child should be raised in that fucked up situation.
I think more people would be able to raise children better if we had universal education. The better educated people in society gets, the more beneficial it is for everyone.
anybody, but sometimes your decisions effect other people...what if the potential father really wanted a child, that could literaly break his heart.. you and and bottle tree have never been a parent so it would be hard for you to understand as it would for I but based on what i see its an extremely intense feeling for some..some people would die in place of there children and a father should have no say??
I don't care what a man thinks. It's my body, and if he wants children with me, he should wait until I'm ready for it.
but i truly believe it should be both parents decisions based on what i just said and i think there should be a one week waiting period so people can fully think and understand what they are doing...
No, men shouldn't have any say in this. And making a decision like having an abortion IS one that women make an educated decision about. It's a hard choice for a lot of women, who sometimes end up feeling guilty because of the shit society gives them.
im still a little baffled on how people can thing this is a power thing, u really feel that most people in this world is that cynical? maybe they are but i still believe a little more out of people and think they have the right to think what is morally wrong and right based on there own belief systems..
A lot of crazy right wing republicans in America still live in the Bible times. They want things to run how THEY want it, and benefit themselves. Not benefit society. I personally think they are just extremely ignorant, but their ignorance doesn't excuse them to make decisions for everyone else. You would be surprised how much sexism against women there is in society, especially if you were one. There are plenty of men in America today who feel superior to females, and want to control them because they believe that they know what's best for them because they are simply male. That is why you don't see as many women in higher positions, especially in politics. Men get paid more than women for doing the same job (which has happened to me when I did an even better job than the other guy), etc. It's just another form of control to keep women down and stay barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.
Please don't think I'm angry with you, Nola. I'm not, I just wish you can see how big of a deal this really is.
bottle tree let me just ask you a simple question then ,d oes it at least sadden you that there a certain times where a person could have not had an abortion and a person culd have lived a happy healthy life and now it doesnt get to do that at all becuase it would be stressful in someone life tho go through with a nine month pregnancy?
also there needs to be a little more control on who even has babies. there are way too many young people these days having babies when they can in no way financially or emotionally support a child.
there are people at my work who are like that and it sickens me. no child should be raised in that fucked up situation.
I think more people would be able to raise children better if we had universal education. The better educated people in society gets, the more beneficial it is for everyone.
I agree. birth control and condoms need to be more widely talked about to young adults too.
Indeed. In California after they introduced actual sex education classes, teen pregnancy dropped tremendously. It works, but the republicans are just stubborn and don't want to change because they think they have "family values".
yup a man could only want a child to keep women down in society, it couldnt possibly be that they want to experience a connection with another human being that they brought into the world that would be crazy talk...
bottle tree let me just ask you a simple question then ,d oes it at least sadden you that there a certain times where a person could have not had an abortion and a person culd have lived a happy healthy life and now it doesnt get to do that at all becuase it would be stressful in someone life tho go through with a nine month pregnancy?
I don't know the fate of any human being. But hypothetically, no it doesn't bother me at all. I like to focus on the people who are already alive, and it saddens me we don't take care of the ones who are already here more.
Comments
I don't think a zygote or a fetus that can't live outside the mother is a human being. Hell, it can't feel pain anyway when abortions are performed. If I thought that way, then I would have to mourn all the periods I had because all of my eggs are potential lives.
And people need to stop thinking its a human life. It's a clump of cells, not a person. The reason I use mourning a period as an example is because it's equally ridiculous. Eggs have the potential to become a life just like a zygote does. Does it make them people? No, it doesn't.
I don't understand what's so complicated about it. People need to realize that a clump of cells isn't a person, and it's not a big deal if you stop the process.
The reason it's such a huge deal to me is as I said earlier, it's just a way to control women. Even if the guy is genuine in how he thinks, it allows people who want to control women more power. It is a potential catalyst for so many more problems, and more ways for men to control me.
if you leave the process alone its oging tobe a person, a person who will grow up make friends have a family, possiblely find the love of his/her life have more happy children that get to experince the joys of life etc.. once again this is a DIFFICULT ISSUE, one with probably not a right or wrong answer, people just try and deal with it the best they can...for instance what if you were a slodier and had to kill an innocent child to protect your troop?? killing that child would be a very difficult thing to do even if it was for the betterment of every one else..you could understand why someone would be hesistant in doing that...i think abortion is similar to that...if you absolutely have no means or are incompabable of raising a child then it would probably be the responsible thing to get an abortion, but i believe i have the right to call someone selfish who gets an abortion just because it would be a hassle in there life at the time, what gives some poeple the right to live and some others dont?
your example to the period is just ludacris and silly, egss have no potential of making a child, 0 unless it is fertilized..the example is completely irrelevant
By your logic, Nola, Plan B should be illegal, because it is a form of contraception that kills the potential for a child to grow. The difference in our thinking is that you see the maximum potential of the fetus, where I see what I believe is the most likely course for that child's life, and none of that is positive. Sure, great people grow from the slums and go on to do great things, but to say that is an argument for making abortion illegal is tough.
I won't vote for an anti Roe v Wade president because I believe that it has nothing to do with sympathy, nothing to do with life, but it's all about the rights of the individual. He is a Roe v Wade opponent, which is all I need. I feel like the recent pressure with funding planned parenthood, etc combined with an anti Roe v Wade president is all the right needs to make a push for overturning the decision.
Abortion is in no way, shape, or form to killing someone who is already there. That person has already experienced life and is a complex being. You don't realize you even exist until you're two years old. A fetus or a zygote can't do any of those things. It's not a soul, it's not going to go to heaven and look down and say "MOMMY WHY DID YOU KILL ME?" despite what some pro-lifers believe.
Why is it so selfish to have an abortion because you don't want a child? It would be better to abort it than have to either a) give it up for adoption and have the stress for the rest of your life that you abandoned your child, and stuck it with the thousands of other children who need to be adopted, or b) keep it and not be able to live your own life. And sometimes people who weren't ready for a child but were pressured into having it anyway don't end up really loving their children. One of the nurses at my gyno told me that's what happened to her sister.
And an egg has plenty of potential to be a life, it's just one half of the zygote. But neither are people. That is the point I'm trying to make.
The things you listed that a potential life could experience could happen, or it could be the opposite. But those examples of "what could of been" are exactly the things people tell women to make them feel bad so they won't get one. In Texas they're now making women get a fucking sonogram of their fetus before they can get an abortion to make them feel guilty and feel bad. You should NEVER make someone feel bad for a decision, no matter what their case is, that shouldn't even be a big deal in the first place. And again, it's mostly men (I've seen a statistic that it was like, 80% of people who are anti-abortion are men) who make these stupid laws in order to control women. It's wrong, and they need to stop their Medieval way of thinking.
so wine your stating that ron paul cat be an effective president because his stance on abortion which has nothing to do with running a country is all about him just trying to take rights away from people ( which he addamently stands against) and not that he could just think its difficult saddened decision that he feels against personally?
Please don't think I'm angry with you, Nola. I'm not, I just wish you can see how big of a deal this really is.