well you can stand by your statement all you want, your dead wrong and i figured you smarter than that. maybe in metal 'good' music thats true but in real music lyrics are what makes music good. so then what makes neil young, bob dylan, tom waits, leonard cohen, nick cave, etc etc good?
Lyrical content is completely unnecessary to have good music.
umm wine, what in gods name are you talking about?
He's right though. Good lyrics are the last thing I look for in an album. the music is what it's about. Now I do like creative lyrics and I do think they are important but I can live without them
drinkwine732Posts: 20,418destroyer of motherfuckers
edited November 2010
well you can stand by your statement all you want, your dead wrong and i figured you smarter than that. maybe in metal 'good' music thats true but in real music lyrics are what makes music good. so then what makes neil young, bob dylan, tom waits, leonard cohen, nick cave, etc etc good?
Tom Waits' voice is what makes him good. The guy still has vocal melodies that are cool too. Similar things go for Dylan, Young and the others.
Are you trying to tell me that all instrumental music is bad?
EDIT: Hell, I can go even further with this. What's the point of an instrumental break in a song? Why even have points where the vocalist isn't singing if the only value is lyrical content?
well you can stand by your statement all you want, your dead wrong and i figured you smarter than that. maybe in metal 'good' music thats true but in real music lyrics are what makes music good. so then what makes neil young, bob dylan, tom waits, leonard cohen, nick cave, etc etc good?
Tom Waits' voice is what makes him good. The guy still has vocal melodies that are cool too. Similar things go for Dylan, Young and the others.
Are you trying to tell me that all instrumental music is bad?
wow apparently you havent listened to dylan and waits and young enough then cuz that was a stupid answer. and instrumentals can be good but are not as good usually. the actual music is important as well but to say lyrics are interchangeable depending on the music is ridiculous. are u trollin or somethin?
Lyrical content is completely unnecessary to have good music.
umm wine, what in gods name are you talking about?
He's right though. Good lyrics are the last thing I look for in an album. the music is what it's about. Now I do like creative lyrics and I do think they are important but I can live without them
my condolences, your missing soooooooo much....
Honestly. Do you think you have to have great lyrics for the music to be good? If so, you are the one missing out
Lyrical content is completely unnecessary to have good music.
umm wine, what in gods name are you talking about?
He's right though. Good lyrics are the last thing I look for in an album. the music is what it's about. Now I do like creative lyrics and I do think they are important but I can live without them
my condolences, your missing soooooooo much....
Honestly. Do you think you have to have great lyrics for the music to be good? If so, you are the one missing out
yes i do. i know metal usually doesnt have the greatest lyrics, thats why I dont consider to be the best music available. Metal is fun and stuff and i like it but even i know that there is better music out there, i mean you honestly dont think slipknot is the pinnacle of music writinig do you? lol
I definitely do not think they are the pinnacle of music writing but I believe metal is the best music available mainly because of the music. I've heard a lot of great lyrics from metal as well but it's the music that gets me interested in something at first, not the lyrics
drinkwine732Posts: 20,418destroyer of motherfuckers
wow apparently you havent listened to dylan and waits and young enough then cuz that was a stupid answer. and instrumentals can be good but are not as good usually. the actual music is important as well but to say lyrics are interchangeable depending on the music is ridiculous. are u trollin or somethin?
The only artist on that list that I listen to often is Waits, and his voice is so compelling. Everything is so bluesy and I dig it so much. It's not Waits' lyrics that really compel me to him, and to be honest I've never read too much into them. I've always thought his voice was just killer. To say that the reason I like Waits is stupid is to forget the relativity of music itself.
Interchangeable...hmmm....don't think that's the word that I'd use. However, with that said, there is a degree that I agree with that statement. I don't think that I would vastly dislike song x because it has song y's lyrics.
But going back to instrumental music. Instrumentals can be good, but you said earlier that in "real music lyrics are what makes [it] good." Are those two statements not contradictory?
While you're thinking about that one, let me drop you two instrumental songs that I consider to contain an immense amount of musical value.
Both songs contain all the elements that a fantastic song has. The first Cloudkicker song drives that melody so perfectly, not afraid to get really heavy also. Red Sparowes are a post-rock band that creates such an awesome instrumental vibe that it puts most other non-metal to shame. Post-rock itself is a genre that thrives off of the instrumental sound and performance. Everything is there except lyrics. Yet apparently in "real music," the lyrics are all that matters.
I definitely do not think they are the pinnacle of music writing but I believe metal is the best music available mainly because of the music. I've heard a lot of great lyrics from metal as well but it's the music that gets me interested in something at first, not the lyrics
well in metal the music is important, but honestly santana i can promise you that there is much better music out there than metal. I love metal, listen to it everyday, but the are real lyricists out there than could change your mind in that. the real artists make you feel so much more with there writing other than just pumping you up....
i like the movie analogy.....Metal is like the fun movies you see like comedies or horrors and you enjoy those movies but you know there not as good as real movies, you know what im sayin?
I see what you mean and I do have that feel for other music so I'm kind of torn on the subject. All I really know is metal is my favorite genre... I think what you're saying is there's other music out there that sounds great musically but also has a great lyrical message?
Wine, first off the lyrics is why MOST people like artists like waits and dylan because there amazing, its just that tom is so awesome he has other elements that lift him up to the competition. that being said I have nothing against instrumentals at all, they can be just as good and make you feel just as much. i love some instrumental songs but you have to know that lyrics are an extremely important element to music. if every song was an instrumental you would be missing sooooo much substance and great art. I have always loved songwriters and lyrics have always made the music better to me. can a song be good with bad lyrics? yes. but the brilliant artists are the ones that write great lyrics. its like johnny cash can strum three chords but with the right lyrics he can touch you to the core
This statement here troubles me. Are you stating that there is no artistic value in metal at all?
no many many metal bands are truly artiistically and musically talented, I just dont put them on the level of elite artists. Not to say they arent better musicans or cant write better music but i take songs on an entire level and dont like to break them down. i feel so much more from artists that dont make metal music
I see what you mean and I do have that feel for other music so I'm kind of torn on the subject. All I really know is metal is my favorite genre... I think what you're saying is there's other music out there that sounds great musically but also has a great lyrical message?
drinkwine732Posts: 20,418destroyer of motherfuckers
Wine, first off the lyrics is why MOST people like artists like waits and dylan because there amazing, its just that tom is so awesome he has other elements that lift him up to the competition. that being said I have nothing against instrumentals at all, they can be just as good and make you feel just as much. i love some instrumental songs but you have to know that lyrics are an extremely important element to music. if every song was an instrumental you would be missing sooooo much substance and great art. I have always loved songwriters and lyrics have always made the music better to me. can a song be good with bad lyrics? yes. but the brilliant artists are the ones that write great lyrics. its like johnny cash can strum three chords but with the right lyrics he can touch you to the core
That first sentence, I can totally agree with. I know I'm on an island in saying that lyrics are a non-entity in deciding whether a song is good or not. Nothing makes me more frustrated with a person when I say, "that song sucks," then they say, "it's about his mom dying." However, with this said, I feel like there's a disconnect in what we are saying.
I in no way consider vocal performances to be a non-entity in music, I consider lyrical content to be. If every song was an instrumental, then there would be no vocal performances, and in turn no lyrics. However, if every song continued to have a vocal part, but was just mindless gibberish, I believe it still could have musical value. Perhaps this is why so many seem to have a problem with metal and I don't.
Your Johnny Cash example is well placed, because for you it's the lyrics that move you so much, but for me, it's the chord progression (no matter how few) and the vocal sound. I love Cash, and believe he is a great singer as well as a lyricist, but it's not the lyrics that make me like him. It's his singing.
I see what you mean and I do have that feel for other music so I'm kind of torn on the subject. All I really know is metal is my favorite genre... I think what you're saying is there's other music out there that sounds great musically but also has a great lyrical message?
lol yeah, its a crazy concept huh lol
haha It's just that my favorite genre is metal and all so I don't really know what I'm trying to say in this comment so I'm just going to drag it on and pretend like I know what I'm talking about like Erik
I see what you mean and I do have that feel for other music so I'm kind of torn on the subject. All I really know is metal is my favorite genre... I think what you're saying is there's other music out there that sounds great musically but also has a great lyrical message?
lol yeah, its a crazy concept huh lol
haha It's just that my favorite genre is metal and all so I don't really know what I'm trying to say in this comment so I'm just going to drag it on and pretend like I know what I'm talking about like Erik
well if you ever want to open your musical horizons santana let me know.... I'll give you music 100 better than any metal band you listen to
I see what you mean and I do have that feel for other music so I'm kind of torn on the subject. All I really know is metal is my favorite genre... I think what you're saying is there's other music out there that sounds great musically but also has a great lyrical message?
lol yeah, its a crazy concept huh lol
haha It's just that my favorite genre is metal and all so I don't really know what I'm trying to say in this comment so I'm just going to drag it on and pretend like I know what I'm talking about like Erik
well if you ever want to open your musical horizons santana let me know.... I'll give you music 100 better than any metal band you listen to
NOOOOOOOOWwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww you wanna go huh SOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN Metal is my favorite genre so good luck trying to change on that one buddy
Comments
Are you trying to tell me that all instrumental music is bad?
EDIT: Hell, I can go even further with this. What's the point of an instrumental break in a song? Why even have points where the vocalist isn't singing if the only value is lyrical content?
Interchangeable...hmmm....don't think that's the word that I'd use. However, with that said, there is a degree that I agree with that statement. I don't think that I would vastly dislike song x because it has song y's lyrics.
But going back to instrumental music. Instrumentals can be good, but you said earlier that in "real music lyrics are what makes [it] good." Are those two statements not contradictory?
While you're thinking about that one, let me drop you two instrumental songs that I consider to contain an immense amount of musical value.
Song quality ain't so hot, but good enough.
Both songs contain all the elements that a fantastic song has. The first Cloudkicker song drives that melody so perfectly, not afraid to get really heavy also. Red Sparowes are a post-rock band that creates such an awesome instrumental vibe that it puts most other non-metal to shame. Post-rock itself is a genre that thrives off of the instrumental sound and performance. Everything is there except lyrics. Yet apparently in "real music," the lyrics are all that matters.
i like the movie analogy.....Metal is like the fun movies you see like comedies or horrors and you enjoy those movies but you know there not as good as real movies, you know what im sayin?
I think what you're saying is there's other music out there that sounds great musically but also has a great lyrical message?
lol yeah, its a crazy concept huh lol
I in no way consider vocal performances to be a non-entity in music, I consider lyrical content to be. If every song was an instrumental, then there would be no vocal performances, and in turn no lyrics. However, if every song continued to have a vocal part, but was just mindless gibberish, I believe it still could have musical value. Perhaps this is why so many seem to have a problem with metal and I don't.
Your Johnny Cash example is well placed, because for you it's the lyrics that move you so much, but for me, it's the chord progression (no matter how few) and the vocal sound. I love Cash, and believe he is a great singer as well as a lyricist, but it's not the lyrics that make me like him. It's his singing.
well if you ever want to open your musical horizons santana let me know.... I'll give you music 100 better than any metal band you listen to
Metal is my favorite genre so good luck trying to change on that one buddy
and teh page?