Yeah I'm not gonna watch 3 30 minute videos lol. Especially when the first video came out in 2017. Besides, Cosmonaut actually liked the Joker lol
Which really surprised me considering what he said in that video applies more than ever to Joker.
Regardless. That wasnt the Joker. I dont care how hard you try to shoe horn it in. He isnt the Joker in relation to comic portrayal over a 80+ years of comics. Isnt accurate even in terms of Killing Joke. And doesnt even work as a good portrayal in terms of an Elseworld's story.
I dont care how good the movie may be. Its a bad and disingenous adaptation of a character.
Doesn’t matter how much you deny it, or if you liked it, or if I liked it. We don’t have to shoe horn anything. It fucking reality.
Same Joker, bad Joker, different adaptation of Joker, brand new Joker. 60’s Joker, 90’s Joker, Ledger Joker, Leto Joker. Doesn’t matter, still the Joker. DC approved. That is a cold hard fact and not an opinion. It’s DC’s Black Album. It’s different than what came before for better or worse, it’s not the same, and they don’t owe “ true fans” anything. They made a billion dollars and dgaf about your opinion or expectations.
A person in a band should definitely understand this. They made the product they wanted and put it out for people to buy or not buy. You can choose to buy it or not, but continuing to deny what it actually is just makes you look like the clown.
At least I watched the damn movie and know what I’m talking about. Seriously it’s played to perfection and no it’s not because he is dressed like a clown. You’re literally watching him be created.
I’m done with this conversation until you actually watch the fucking thing instead of talking out of your ass like an idiot.
You tryin to be a hero fool? You wanna see badass mother fucker?! I'll show ya a badass!!!
I've seen and read enough fan comments, reviews, and plot summaries to know. Its amazing what supplementary material can offer you these days.
The Joker is NOT: mentally ill, socially retarded, un-charismatic, dumb, feeble, misunderstood, unsure, insecure, nor a product of some uncaring corrupt society, as portrayed in the movie. I mean this Joker isn't really even bad or evil.
His existence is to provide antithesis to Batman, he's Batman's #1 arch villain. He's not insane, he's super-sane. He's fully aware of the fucked up things he does, he enjoys doing them. He's evil, not misunderstood. He's charismatic enough to convert other professional criminals and super villains to his cause, to convert Harley, a doctor who specialized in dealing with asylum patients, into falling in love with him. He's smart and unpredictable enough to outsmart Batman, the greatest detective who ever lived. He isn't a product of an uncaring society, he's the kind of character that doesn't give a single fuck about society.
"But what about the origin for Killing Joke", you're taking ONE small part of ONE short story out of an 80 year history of the character, that was SUPPOSED to be a false origin for the character, because he made all that shit up. A story he fucking shot and crippled Batwoman, stripped her naked, kid napped her dad, and forced him to see the pictures as a form of mental torture.
Do you really think the Joker in the movie has any chance against Batman? Do you really think he's calm and intelligent enough to run massive criminal organizations? Do you really think he's charismatic enough to convert Harley into falling in love with him? Because judging from the end of the movie, he doesn't miraculously become some suave, intelligent, cunning, conniving villain. If this is "the origin story" it fails to produce The Joker he becomes.
I could understand if he showcased evil and sadistic tendencies from the get go. Only amplified by rejection from those around him, and a society that doesn't care. Where he is a failed comedian because his jokes are offensive, hurtful, and crude. Where his advances towards his love interest are creepy and selfish and insincere. Where people around him think he's weird not because he zones out and laughs when he's uncomfortable, but because he's sadistic, and creepy. All culminating to the point where Batman's emergence as a hero just sets him off as becoming the absolute antitheis of that hero. - Something like Brightburn in terms of that kids gradual growth into a villain. He was always creepy, prone to violence, and and sadistic. The rejection of those around him only pushed what was already there further, until he was pushed to full villain. Like a Cletus Kasady before Carnage. Kasady was still evil, Carnage just pushed him over that edge.
But we don't get that. We get a sad, laughing man, who makes unfunny jokes, and is unable to find his place in the world, that ultimately has no climax worthy of him becoming one of the greatest and most violent villains of all time.
And I agree, this conversation isn't going to go anywhere, so this is the last time I'm going to explain this all. You like the movie, great. Enjoy it.
Comments
Regardless. That wasnt the Joker. I dont care how hard you try to shoe horn it in. He isnt the Joker in relation to comic portrayal over a 80+ years of comics. Isnt accurate even in terms of Killing Joke. And doesnt even work as a good portrayal in terms of an Elseworld's story.
I dont care how good the movie may be. Its a bad and disingenous adaptation of a character.
Leto Joker > Pheonix Joker
More Logan, less Joker in that respect.
Funny I've been reading comics for 20 years now and i recognized him
Thats where the comparrison ends. Nothing else about him is Joker.
The Joker is NOT: mentally ill, socially retarded, un-charismatic, dumb, feeble, misunderstood, unsure, insecure, nor a product of some uncaring corrupt society, as portrayed in the movie. I mean this Joker isn't really even bad or evil.
His existence is to provide antithesis to Batman, he's Batman's #1 arch villain. He's not insane, he's super-sane. He's fully aware of the fucked up things he does, he enjoys doing them. He's evil, not misunderstood. He's charismatic enough to convert other professional criminals and super villains to his cause, to convert Harley, a doctor who specialized in dealing with asylum patients, into falling in love with him. He's smart and unpredictable enough to outsmart Batman, the greatest detective who ever lived. He isn't a product of an uncaring society, he's the kind of character that doesn't give a single fuck about society.
"But what about the origin for Killing Joke", you're taking ONE small part of ONE short story out of an 80 year history of the character, that was SUPPOSED to be a false origin for the character, because he made all that shit up. A story he fucking shot and crippled Batwoman, stripped her naked, kid napped her dad, and forced him to see the pictures as a form of mental torture.
Do you really think the Joker in the movie has any chance against Batman? Do you really think he's calm and intelligent enough to run massive criminal organizations? Do you really think he's charismatic enough to convert Harley into falling in love with him? Because judging from the end of the movie, he doesn't miraculously become some suave, intelligent, cunning, conniving villain. If this is "the origin story" it fails to produce The Joker he becomes.
I could understand if he showcased evil and sadistic tendencies from the get go. Only amplified by rejection from those around him, and a society that doesn't care. Where he is a failed comedian because his jokes are offensive, hurtful, and crude. Where his advances towards his love interest are creepy and selfish and insincere. Where people around him think he's weird not because he zones out and laughs when he's uncomfortable, but because he's sadistic, and creepy. All culminating to the point where Batman's emergence as a hero just sets him off as becoming the absolute antitheis of that hero. - Something like Brightburn in terms of that kids gradual growth into a villain. He was always creepy, prone to violence, and and sadistic. The rejection of those around him only pushed what was already there further, until he was pushed to full villain. Like a Cletus Kasady before Carnage. Kasady was still evil, Carnage just pushed him over that edge.
But we don't get that. We get a sad, laughing man, who makes unfunny jokes, and is unable to find his place in the world, that ultimately has no climax worthy of him becoming one of the greatest and most violent villains of all time.
And I agree, this conversation isn't going to go anywhere, so this is the last time I'm going to explain this all. You like the movie, great. Enjoy it.