so if you guys were to say get a new haircut......would you steal it first to see if you like it? Want to try a new food? Steal it. If you like it then buy more. Stealing this music hurts the artist, so you are obviously not fans.
Sorry. Your logic is flawed.
For starters "theft" involves quantifiable deprivation. Someone takes it, and the other person doesn't have it anymore. Copying is not theft, because it involves no quantifiable deprivation. And *no*, the money they may have gotten had a pirate paid for a CD does not constitute quantifiable deprivation. Now, that's not to say that it is in any way morally correct, just that it's not theft. But the distinction is important, and the content business knows that, which is why they expend so much effort trying to conflate the two, and it's a load of BS. It's been a long campaign to twist our understanding of the concept of 'intellectual property' to the point that we consider it to be the same as physical property, which it most assuredly is not.
Secondly, stealing the music does not hurt the artist. The number of people that copy the music, does not equal loss of sales. In fact the number of pirates that may have bought that content is very low and in the noise. Frankly, most people don't pirate. and the ones that do most often turn into the loudest proponent of that content, selling more albums for the band via word of mouth advertising.
Finally, most artist see very little of an actual CD sale. Want to support a band? Steal their albums and go to their concerts and buy their shirts. Go ahead and talk to most metal artist about this topic... My guess is most artist understand the benefits of Piracy. Sure some dinosaurs havent embraced the future, but most have.
so if you guys were to say get a new haircut......would you steal it first to see if you like it? Want to try a new food? Steal it. If you like it then buy more. Stealing this music hurts the artist, so you are obviously not fans.
Sorry. Your logic is flawed.
For starters "theft" involves quantifiable deprivation. Someone takes it, and the other person doesn't have it anymore. Copying is not theft, because it involves no quantifiable deprivation. And *no*, the money they may have gotten had a pirate paid for a CD does not constitute quantifiable deprivation. Now, that's not to say that it is in any way morally correct, just that it's not theft. But the distinction is important, and the content business knows that, which is why they expend so much effort trying to conflate the two, and it's a load of BS. It's been a long campaign to twist our understanding of the concept of 'intellectual property' to the point that we consider it to be the same as physical property, which it most assuredly is not.
Secondly, stealing the music does not hurt the artist. The number of people that copy the music, does not equal loss of sales. In fact the number of pirates that may have bought that content is very low and in the noise. Frankly, most people don't pirate. and the ones that do most often turn into the loudest proponent of that content, selling more albums for the band via word of mouth advertising.
Finally, most artist see very little of an actual CD sale. Want to support a band? Steal their albums and go to their concerts and buy their shirts. Go ahead and talk to most metal artist about this topic... My guess is most artist understand the benefits of Piracy. Sure some dinosaurs havent embraced the future, but most have.
so if you guys were to say get a new haircut......would you steal it first to see if you like it? Want to try a new food? Steal it. If you like it then buy more. Stealing this music hurts the artist, so you are obviously not fans.
Sorry. Your logic is flawed.
For starters "theft" involves quantifiable deprivation. Someone takes it, and the other person doesn't have it anymore. Copying is not theft, because it involves no quantifiable deprivation. And *no*, the money they may have gotten had a pirate paid for a CD does not constitute quantifiable deprivation. Now, that's not to say that it is in any way morally correct, just that it's not theft. But the distinction is important, and the content business knows that, which is why they expend so much effort trying to conflate the two, and it's a load of BS. It's been a long campaign to twist our understanding of the concept of 'intellectual property' to the point that we consider it to be the same as physical property, which it most assuredly is not.
Secondly, stealing the music does not hurt the artist. The number of people that copy the music, does not equal loss of sales. In fact the number of pirates that may have bought that content is very low and in the noise. Frankly, most people don't pirate. and the ones that do most often turn into the loudest proponent of that content, selling more albums for the band via word of mouth advertising.
Finally, most artist see very little of an actual CD sale. Want to support a band? Steal their albums and go to their concerts and buy their shirts. Go ahead and talk to most metal artist about this topic... My guess is most artist understand the benefits of Piracy. Sure some dinosaurs havent embraced the future, but most have.
This
First of all "copying" and distributing, either in a hard copy or via the internet, any material that is not your own or that you have rights and permissions to, is illegal. Any way you have to slice it so that it's easier for you to digest is fine with me. It's still stealing. If the artist had intended for you to have it for free he would have given it to you.
Second, how many of you students, teenagers, and only recently employable youngsters help an artist by buying a t-shirt that the venue gets a piece of, the tax man gets a piece of, the management group gets a piece of, and whatever the poor sap stuck in the merch booth either gives away or steals, before the artist makes 3 to 5 bucks? I have spent a majority of my adult life touring with various people. Recently I had the privilege of spending two days with Daath and spoke with Eyal alot on this very topic. It takes the whole package of buying the CD, the shirts, the tickets, etc. just so the band can pay for what they are doing. The profitable bands are those that find out how to get that package into your hands first.
WakeOfAshesPosts: 21,665destroyer of motherfuckers
First of all "copying" and distributing, either in a hard copy or via the internet, any material that is not your own or that you have rights and permissions to, is illegal. Any way you have to slice it so that it's easier for you to digest is fine with me. It's still stealing. If the artist had intended for you to have it for free he would have given it to you.
Second, how many of you students, teenagers, and only recently employable youngsters help an artist by buying a t-shirt that the venue gets a piece of, the tax man gets a piece of, the management group gets a piece of, and whatever the poor sap stuck in the merch booth either gives away or steals, before the artist makes 3 to 5 bucks? I have spent a majority of my adult life touring with various people. Recently I had the privilege of spending two days with Daath and spoke with Eyal alot on this very topic. It takes the whole package of buying the CD, the shirts, the tickets, etc. just so the band can pay for what they are doing. The profitable bands are those that find out how to get that package into your hands first.
Just my opinion, but it's still stealing.
But you opinion is wrong. By the very definition of "stealing", it is not that because there has been no quantifiable deprivation. Now I absolutely agree with you that it is to some degree morally wrong, and it absolutely illegal, however you shouldn't be so quick to eat up the RIAA's redefinition of the term "intellectual property". I'm totally fine with you saying it is wrong, but I will always take issue when someone seriously calls it stealing, or equates it to stealing a car. It is not the same.
I really don't want to comment more on this because I feel saying more takes away from what I said above. This really is an important distinction.
There is no distinction. It's black or white. No grey areas for me. It's stealing. Go to the next show and tell the artist you downloaded his CD and see what reaction you get.
WakeOfAshesPosts: 21,665destroyer of motherfuckers
There is no distinction. It's black or white. No grey areas for me. It's stealing. Go to the next show and tell the artist you downloaded his CD and see what reaction you get.
I agree to disagree. >-
I have! Many times.... and the artist has never taken issues with me. I told Randy Blythe I got into his band after I illegally downloaded NAG, but had since bought all his albums. I told him that without piracy I probably wouldnt like his band. He had no issues with that.
I had a long conversation with Joe Duplantier about piracy as well. I told him that he needed to release Terra Incognita in the USA because I had no intention in spending 50 bucks for an import. I flat out told him that I got into his band due to piracy but that I had bought all his albums except for Terra because it was not released. He was fucking cool. After we talked for like 10 minutes he pulled out a pick and said it was the one he was playing with that night and handed it to me.
Yeah, some artist dont realize how famous they get from piracy, but some do.
we can agree to disagree, but coping cd's in not theft. Illegal yes. Morally wrong, probably. But it is not the same as stealing a car.
WakeOfAshesPosts: 21,665destroyer of motherfuckers
Goddammit I want to see Gojira.....
Gojira is fucking awesome in concert. And Joe is literally one of the coolest rockstars I've ever met. He has a lot of the same qualities as Chuck Schuldiner... Just really down to earth, and so into his music, and really just a nice dude.
Comments
First of all "copying" and distributing, either in a hard copy or via the internet, any material that is not your own or that you have rights and permissions to, is illegal. Any way you have to slice it so that it's easier for you to digest is fine with me. It's still stealing. If the artist had intended for you to have it for free he would have given it to you.
Second, how many of you students, teenagers, and only recently employable youngsters help an artist by buying a t-shirt that the venue gets a piece of, the tax man gets a piece of, the management group gets a piece of, and whatever the poor sap stuck in the merch booth either gives away or steals, before the artist makes 3 to 5 bucks? I have spent a majority of my adult life touring with various people. Recently I had the privilege of spending two days with Daath and spoke with Eyal alot on this very topic. It takes the whole package of buying the CD, the shirts, the tickets, etc. just so the band can pay for what they are doing. The profitable bands are those that find out how to get that package into your hands first.
Just my opinion, but it's still stealing.
I really don't want to comment more on this because I feel saying more takes away from what I said above. This really is an important distinction.
I agree to disagree.
I have! Many times.... and the artist has never taken issues with me. I told Randy Blythe I got into his band after I illegally downloaded NAG, but had since bought all his albums. I told him that without piracy I probably wouldnt like his band. He had no issues with that.
I had a long conversation with Joe Duplantier about piracy as well. I told him that he needed to release Terra Incognita in the USA because I had no intention in spending 50 bucks for an import. I flat out told him that I got into his band due to piracy but that I had bought all his albums except for Terra because it was not released. He was fucking cool. After we talked for like 10 minutes he pulled out a pick and said it was the one he was playing with that night and handed it to me.
Yeah, some artist dont realize how famous they get from piracy, but some do.
we can agree to disagree, but coping cd's in not theft. Illegal yes. Morally wrong, probably. But it is not the same as stealing a car.
how fans got that album and most bands don't give a fuck if you download.