yeah, i bet that sucks. i'd never be able to work in a place like that. i wne with my mom to put her dogg to sleep we had ever since i was like 8 years old like 2 years ago, and i wnet to support her and i ended up falling apart. lol :-(
I feel for people that have to do it for a living...
drinkwine732Posts: 20,418destroyer of motherfuckers
I was going to give you a long and slightly depressing argument as to why pessimism at such a young age is pretty pointless, but you decided to not play along.
Moral of the story, you have a long life ahead of you, never let anything that happened in a day, week, month, year, or decade define how you will life your life from here on out.
You realize pessimism can be a reaction to a world view, right? Just because someone is cynical and pessimistic doesn't mean they've had horrible personal experiences. I've grown up in a wonderful, loving family, I've had some great friends, and an overall -compared to average- privileged life. Yet, when I look at the world around me, and see how people treat each other, see the oppression and suppression and violence and terror, whether carried out by individuals or by governments, and the overall failures of humanity, I find it delusional to even consider optimism as a thought process.
Inside every cynic is a disappointed idealist. I'm an idealist, but without illusions. I actually think optimistic people make the world a better place. Sadly, I'm not one of those people.
I would like to see wine elaborate more... I dont think he got owned, i just think he didnt respond to the reple yet. both make good points in some sense.... you have to take evrything in this world with a grain of salt...
I'm the bitter, idealistic, misanthropist - the type of person Wine has no use for.
Wine is the optimistic person, the one who gets the most out of life because he sees life as a gift that shouldn't be squandered in negativity - the type of person I envy.
Now now now, no use for? Don't sell yourself short.
I can understand your misanthropic pessimism a lot more than I can understand personal pessimism of the sort described earlier. That is to say, "I'm 17 and life hasn't worked out for me so far, I have no reason to expect that will change.". I think that the best, as well a most rational, way to live life is as if your best days are ahead of you. Perhaps that might kill the realist in each of you, but that's the way I do it.
Now, as far as misanthropy, I have problems with it in that I think that every person in the world has basic altruistic tendencies, and when given the option, will choose to exercise those tendencies. What media has done to society is take the instances where people act in their own interests (fuck you Ayn Rand) and popularize it to the point where many assume that that is how the world operates on a daily basis. I, as an optimist (not at the sake of losing reality, mind you), see the little things in humanity as evidence of the general altruism that I know is there. Giving a homeless man some money, helping someone who is lost, volunteering, etc.
WakeOfAshesPosts: 21,665destroyer of motherfuckers
Wine is the optimistic person, the one who gets the most out of life because he sees life as a gift that shouldn't be squandered in negativity - the type of person I envy.
WakeOfAshesPosts: 21,665destroyer of motherfuckers
edited April 2011
What media has done to society is take the instances where people act in their own interests (fuck you Ayn Rand) and popularize it to the point where many assume that that is how the world operates on a daily basis. I
Obviously you have failed to grasp her concepts of Objectivism. You have mistakenly assumed that her rejection of altruism was done so on the basis of being against an individuals obligation to help, serve, or benefit others. When actually her objection to altruism was done solely on the basis of helping others at the sacrifice of their own self interest.Had you actually had read Atlas or the Fountainhead with an open mind, it would have been perfectly clear that when an individual seeks his own self interests, that it is society as a whole that benefits from their labor.
drinkwine732Posts: 20,418destroyer of motherfuckers
edited April 2011
I am familiar with Ayn Rand, and was making a remark upon moral egoism as a whole. I don't need to read Atlas Shrugged again to know that her philosophy is unfounded, and in a world where she is regarded as an influential figure in philosophy, I'm afraid a lot of other people won't.
EDIT: In a vacuum, I'm sure several of her ideas could be true, but nothing operates in a vacuum.
WakeOfAshesPosts: 21,665destroyer of motherfuckers
You are free to make any ass comment you want about moral egoism, however if you are going to personally call out someone specifically, then I have the right to rebut your claims. I'll protect her character because I hold her in high regards.
Rand's philosophy isn't as black and white as you are making it out to be. Although her perfect utopia is unfounded, there are degrees of her philosophy implemented throughout history. When a society generally applies her philosophy, their society flourishes. America in the industrial revolution is a classic example of this, however it is hardly the only example. Hong Kong in the 90's is another example where government took a hands off approach and allowed people to pursue their own self interests unrestricted. Yes, neither of these were ideal, but it was a hell of a lot closer then other societies.
So your claim of her philosophy being unfounded is intellectual sloth. You don't have to like Ayn Rand and you can disagree with her philosophical conclusions, however it is my opinion based on your statements that you don't fully grasp the concepts of Objectivism. That is okay, it's a difficult concept for most people to grasp.
drinkwine732Posts: 20,418destroyer of motherfuckers
edited April 2011
My contempt for Ayn Rand lies solely in her beliefs of moral and rational egoism. It's not as if I am committing "intellectual sloth" by saying that a cornerstone of objectivism is wrong, am I? That's just philosophy. It's difficult for any moral altruist to understand objectivism as you describe it, because that understanding seems to require at least a small yielding that it is rational, which it is not. Rand lost me when she made the claim, although oversimplified, that acts of altruism are my own attempts to buy my purpose, and that they are not out of kindness.
EDIT: If I were at home, and not in Maryland right now, I'd gladly show you some excerpts to describe what I'm talking about.
Comments
I feel for people that have to do it for a living...
I can understand your misanthropic pessimism a lot more than I can understand personal pessimism of the sort described earlier. That is to say, "I'm 17 and life hasn't worked out for me so far, I have no reason to expect that will change.". I think that the best, as well a most rational, way to live life is as if your best days are ahead of you. Perhaps that might kill the realist in each of you, but that's the way I do it.
Now, as far as misanthropy, I have problems with it in that I think that every person in the world has basic altruistic tendencies, and when given the option, will choose to exercise those tendencies. What media has done to society is take the instances where people act in their own interests (fuck you Ayn Rand) and popularize it to the point where many assume that that is how the world operates on a daily basis. I, as an optimist (not at the sake of losing reality, mind you), see the little things in humanity as evidence of the general altruism that I know is there. Giving a homeless man some money, helping someone who is lost, volunteering, etc.
EDIT: In a vacuum, I'm sure several of her ideas could be true, but nothing operates in a vacuum.
Rand's philosophy isn't as black and white as you are making it out to be. Although her perfect utopia is unfounded, there are degrees of her philosophy implemented throughout history. When a society generally applies her philosophy, their society flourishes. America in the industrial revolution is a classic example of this, however it is hardly the only example. Hong Kong in the 90's is another example where government took a hands off approach and allowed people to pursue their own self interests unrestricted. Yes, neither of these were ideal, but it was a hell of a lot closer then other societies.
So your claim of her philosophy being unfounded is intellectual sloth. You don't have to like Ayn Rand and you can disagree with her philosophical conclusions, however it is my opinion based on your statements that you don't fully grasp the concepts of Objectivism. That is okay, it's a difficult concept for most people to grasp.
It's Y2j_save_us.
EDIT: If I were at home, and not in Maryland right now, I'd gladly show you some excerpts to describe what I'm talking about.